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Rob  
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 More options Nov 4, 8:22 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Rob <tadej.sla...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 12:22:08 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed, Nov 4 2009 8:22 pm
Subject: Vector Space
Hi all,

I'm trying to understand what was the motivation behind "creating"
vector spaces. I know what the definition is but I find it difficult
to understand why the definition is constructed like that, what is
their "purpose" and why are they such a important part of linear
algebra.

Thank you all for helping me.


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Maarten Bergvelt  
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 More options Nov 4, 8:47 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Maarten Bergvelt <be...@math.uiuc.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 20:47:05 +0000 (UTC)
Local: Wed, Nov 4 2009 8:47 pm
Subject: Re: Vector Space
On 2009-11-04, Rob <tadej.sla...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to understand what was the motivation behind "creating"
> vector spaces. I know what the definition is but I find it difficult
> to understand why the definition is constructed like that, what is
> their "purpose" and why are they such a important part of linear
> algebra.

Hm, how would you do linear algebra without vector spaces? How would
you talk about linear maps, bases, dimension, null spaces etc? Maybe
you should postpone judgement and learn first some more linear algebra
and then after a bit go back to the definition, and see why it make
sense (or not).

Good luck.
--
Maarten Bergvelt                


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Arturo Magidin  
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 More options Nov 4, 9:03 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Arturo Magidin <magi...@member.ams.org>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:03:19 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed, Nov 4 2009 9:03 pm
Subject: Re: Vector Space
On Nov 4, 2:22 pm, Rob <tadej.sla...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,

> I'm trying to understand what was the motivation behind "creating"
> vector spaces. I know what the definition is but I find it difficult
> to understand why the definition is constructed like that, what is
> their "purpose" and why are they such a important part of linear
> algebra.

Well, by *definition*, linear algebra is the study of vector spaces,
so of course vector spaces are "such an important part" of linear
algebra. What you are asking is kind of like asking why animals are
such an important part of zoology, or why historical events are such
an important part of the study of history... So presumably what you
really mean is "why are vector spaces such an important thing?", and
why we even dedicate an entire area of mathematics to study them, so
much so that we give it a special name.

Part of the answer is that linear maps are very nice, and show up a
*lot*. They show up all over the place. And there are many problems
that are *really* hard (especially in physics, trying to model
physical phenomena), but for which one can find a reasonably good
approximate answer by "linearizing", that is, by pretending that the
answer is a linear function. So, linear functions are pretty much the
bee's knees of functions: they show up a lot, they are cool, and they
are very, very useful.

So what we kind of want is to study linear maps. Vector spaces turn
out to have *just* enough 'structure' to them so that you can talk
about linear maps, and say useful things about them. That is, they
provide you with the scaffolding necessary to be able to talk about
linear maps. Now, when you build scaffolding, you are really trying to
find just the right balance between not building too much and not
building too little. If your scaffolding is too flimsy (too vague, too
general), then it won't support you and you won't be able to build
(you won't be able to say terribly much by way of useful things). On
the other hand, if it is too strong, then it takes too much effort to
build (you don't want a scaffolding that is just as hard to build as
the building you are trying to build). The definition of vector spaces
evolved through some years until it found just that perfect balance:
enough structure so you can say useful stuff, but not so much that it
is too specific; by keeping it as general as possible, it becomes
applicable to many things. This because a desirable thing when people
began to notice that many of the same arguments that were used for
specific instances (linear functions of real numbers) were
"essentially the same" as those used in others (linear functions on
the plane; linear functions between polynomials, etc). They are the
result of a process of 'abstraction', whereby people boiled away all
the stuff that was extra and not needed, and kept just the essence
needed to make sure all the important and interesting arguments could
still be made, and the desirable conclusions reached.

--
Arturo Magidin


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Rob  
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 More options Nov 4, 9:10 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Rob <tadej.sla...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:10:23 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed, Nov 4 2009 9:10 pm
Subject: Re: Vector Space

> Hm, how would you do linear algebra without vector spaces? How would
> you talk about linear maps, bases, dimension, null spaces etc? Maybe
> you should postpone judgement and learn first some more linear algebra
> and then after a bit go back to the definition, and see why it make
> sense (or not).

> Good luck.
> --
> Maarten Bergvelt

Maarten, you've got it all wrong. Maybe I wasn't clear enough when
describing my problem or maybe you just had a bad day and let it out
here ...

Anyway, I'm definitely not against vector spaces and I do not see
where you've come up with that idea. Also, your statement that I
should learn more linear algebra (although I agree) isn't exactly a
constructive argument I was looking for.
I am interested in the background of what vector spaces really are and
why they were created, not just learning the definition by heart and
sticking with it, not knowing what it actually means. So if you can't
help me, then at least hold the negative thoughts to yourself.


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W^3  
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 More options Nov 4, 9:20 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: W^3 <aderamey.a...@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:20:36 -0800
Local: Wed, Nov 4 2009 9:20 pm
Subject: Re: Vector Space
In article
<8f78a88e-c7c9-4830-8d47-6b3f2c79e...@o10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,

You take multivariable calculus yet?

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Rob  
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 More options Nov 4, 9:29 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Rob <tadej.sla...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:29:22 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed, Nov 4 2009 9:29 pm
Subject: Re: Vector Space

> You take multivariable calculus yet?

I know only the basics I learned myself. So no, not yet.

Arturo, thanks, it cleared some things.


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µ  
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 More options Nov 4, 9:39 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: µ <m...@melix.net>
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:39:13 +0100
Local: Wed, Nov 4 2009 9:39 pm
Subject: Re: Vector Space
Rob a écrit :

> I am interested in the background of what vector spaces really are and
> why they were created, not just learning the definition by heart and
> sticking with it, not knowing what it actually means. So if you can't
> help me, then at least hold the negative thoughts to yourself.

Roughly, a vector space is a set in which you can build linear
combinations. Such sets are very commonly encountered, e.g. sets of
solutions of a system of linear equations, of differential equations, etc.

The formalization of vector spaces was done to build an abstract and
thus more powerful theory than the theory of systems of equations and
determinants which appear now as a particular case of vector spaces
(namely finite dimension and real or complex coefficients).

Hope it helps.

--


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porky_pig_jr@my-deja.com  
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 More options Nov 4, 10:42 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: "porky_pig...@my-deja.com" <porky_pig...@my-deja.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 14:42:50 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed, Nov 4 2009 10:42 pm
Subject: Re: Vector Space
On Nov 4, 3:22 pm, Rob <tadej.sla...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,

> I'm trying to understand what was the motivation behind "creating"
> vector spaces. I know what the definition is but I find it difficult
> to understand why the definition is constructed like that, what is
> their "purpose" and why are they such a important part of linear
> algebra.

> Thank you all for helping me.

IMHO, the most important application of vector spaces is the
functional analysis. Creating the "function spaces" (vector spaces of
functions), and adding some extra features (e.g., normed vector
spaces, inner product vector spaces), we can learn a great deal about
functions, in a systematic way. Just browse through some introductory
book on functional analysis (like Kreyszig), to get a picture. Very
nice mix of beautiful theory and practical applications (like Fourier
Analysis).

With respect to linear algebra, normally it focuses on finite vector
spaces, and in particular on R^n spaces (since all finite vector
spaces are isomorphic to R^n). Consider it as a stepping stone to
functional analysis (which deals with infinite-dimensional vector
spaces), if you wish.

Of course, as someone has already pointed out, finite-dimensional
vector spaces are *still* important, in multi-variable calculus
setting. I recall reading W. Kaplan, Advanced Calculus, he had some
good thoughts why linear spaces are so important in multivariable
calculus. Roughly, when you deal with multivariable setting, often the
only way to deal with the problem in a systematic way is linear
approximation. And once we don't have to deal with non-linearities, we
can use the same techniques for any number of dimensions (as long as
it's finite). Techniques, concepts, the structure of linear spaces
(aka vector spaces) which is the subject of linear algebra. Kaplan's
is another book I recommend to get and just browse through it a bit,
to see how linear spaces are essential for the whole development of
multivariable calculus.

Unfortunately, most of the linear algebra textbooks do not discuss
applications of linear spaces (in calculus or analysis).

(A funny quote from one of the instructors. "Functional analysis: a
shotgun marriage between the algebra and analysis.")


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Ken Pledger  
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 More options Nov 5, 1:49 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Ken Pledger <ken.pled...@mcs.vuw.ac.nz>
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:49:24 +1300
Local: Thurs, Nov 5 2009 1:49 am
Subject: Re: Vector Space
In article
<f867e281-33d5-41da-9e51-26b562219...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,

 Rob <tadej.sla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ....
> I'm trying to understand what was the motivation behind "creating"
> vector spaces. I know what the definition is but I find it difficult
> to understand why the definition is constructed like that, what is
> their "purpose" and why are they such a important part of linear
> algebra....

      You've really asked a historical question, so here's a very brief
attempt at a historical answer.  (Cognoscenti: please forgive the
half-truths!)

      Vectors began life in applied mathematics as quantities with
magnitude and direction, represented by arrows of suitable lengths.  
You'll still find plenty of those in physics.  In the 19th century
(perhaps beginning with Grassmann) their algebraic properties were
increasingly emphasized, until Hilbert and others were prepared to talk
about infinite-dimensional vectors.  Dirac's wave mechanics and
Heisenberg's matrix mechanics were different special cases of the same
theory, which John von Neumann expressed in the more general
Hilbert-space form now used in quantum mechanics.  That well-developed
infinite-dimensional theory was brought down to earth (i.e. down to
finite dimensions and down to undergraduate level) by Halmos's 1942
text-book "Finite-Dimensional Vector Spaces" which is still IMHO better
than most of the variants which have followed it ever since.

      HTH

            Ken Pledger.


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David C. Ullrich  
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 More options Nov 5, 12:25 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: David C. Ullrich <dullr...@sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 06:25:22 -0600
Local: Thurs, Nov 5 2009 12:25 pm
Subject: Re: Vector Space
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:10:23 -0800 (PST), Rob <tadej.sla...@gmail.com>
wrote:

You're being much too senssitive. He was trying to answer your
question, by asking "Hm, how would you do linear algebra
without vector spaces? How would you talk about linear maps,
bases, dimension, null spaces etc? " If you think about that
question you'll understand the answer to what you were asking
about.

David C. Ullrich

"Understanding Godel isn't about following his formal proof.
That would make a mockery of everything Godel was up to."
(John Jones, "My talk about Godel to the post-grads."
in sci.logic.)


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