Web Images News Groups Scholar Blogs Gmail more »
Recently Visited Groups | Help | Sign in
Google Groups Home
--- a hazardous summation-method for 0!-1!+2!-3!+...-...
There are currently too many topics in this group that display first. To make this topic appear first, remove this option from another topic.
There was an error processing your request. Please try again.
flag
  7 messages - Collapse all  -  Translate all to Translated (View all originals)
The group you are posting to is a Usenet group. Messages posted to this group will make your email address visible to anyone on the Internet.
Your reply message has not been sent.
Your post was successful
 
From:
To:
Cc:
Followup To:
Add Cc | Add Followup-to | Edit Subject
Subject:
Validation:
For verification purposes please type the characters you see in the picture below or the numbers you hear by clicking the accessibility icon. Listen and type the numbers you hear
 
Gottfried Helms  
View profile  
 More options Nov 6, 10:43 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Gottfried Helms <he...@uni-kassel.de>
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 23:43:08 +0100
Local: Fri, Nov 6 2009 10:43 pm
Subject: --- a hazardous summation-method for 0!-1!+2!-3!+...-...
What do you think about the approach to the divergent summation of
the series in the header

 su = 0! - 1! + 2! - 3! + 4! - ... + ...

L Euler found a meaningful interpretation using integrals assigning
it a value of about 0.596347…
Also the Borel-summation assigns the same value to this.

Studying the triangle of Eulerian numbers I came across the
idea to use this matrix for a summation, decomposing the entries
of the matrix into geometric series and derivatives.
Not much sophisticated reasoning about range of convergence
included, but it finds the correct value.

See:
  http://go.helms-net.de/math/binomial_new/01_12_Eulermatrix.pdf

Chap. 2.2 and 2.3

How could this made waterproof?

TIA -

Gottfried Helms


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Gottfried Helms  
View profile  
 More options Nov 7, 7:09 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Gottfried Helms <he...@uni-kassel.de>
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:09:20 +0100
Local: Sat, Nov 7 2009 7:09 am
Subject: Re: --- a hazardous summation-method for 0!-1!+2!-3!+...-...
Am 06.11.2009 23:43 schrieb Gottfried Helms:
> What do you think about the approach to the divergent summation of
> the series in the header

>  su = 0! - 1! + 2! - 3! + 4! - ... + ...

> L Euler found a meaningful interpretation using integrals assigning
> it a value of about 0.596347…
> Also the Borel-summation assigns the same value to this.

I propose the following further values for variations of that sum:
        fsum(x) = 0! + 1! x + 2! x^2 + 3! x^3 +…

        fsum(-1) =        0.596347362323
        fsum(-2) =        0.461455316242
        fsum(-3) =        0.385602012137
        fsum(-4) =        0.335221361210
        fsum(-5) =        0.298669749329
        fsum(-6) =        0.270633013639
        fsum(-7) =        0.248281352547
        fsum(-8) =        0.229947781627
        fsum(-9) =        0.214577094581
        fsum(-10) =       0.201464233646
        fsum(-11) =       0.190117766778
        fsum(-12) =       0.180183310425
        …     …

Could someone check this using the integral-formula?

Gottfried Helms


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Gottfried Helms  
View profile  
 More options Nov 7, 10:28 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Gottfried Helms <he...@uni-kassel.de>
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:28:49 +0100
Local: Sat, Nov 7 2009 10:28 am
Subject: Re: --- a hazardous summation-method for 0!-1!+2!-3!+...-...
Am 07.11.2009 08:09 schrieb Gottfried Helms:
>    …     …

> Could someone check this using the integral-formula?

Ok, that was an easy one. But why could I change order
of summation here? Because in each column are only
finitely many geometric series involved?

Hmm...

Gottfried Helms


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
G. A. Edgar  
View profile  
 More options Nov 7, 10:52 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: "G. A. Edgar" <ed...@math.ohio-state.edu.invalid>
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 05:52:41 -0500
Local: Sat, Nov 7 2009 10:52 am
Subject: Re: --- a hazardous summation-method for 0!-1!+2!-3!+...-...
In article <7lkkp5F3e45d...@mid.dfncis.de>, Gottfried Helms

According to Borel summation, we should have

-exp(1)*Ei(-1) = .5963473622
-(1/2)*exp(1/2)*Ei(-1/2) = .4614553164
-(1/3)*exp(1/3)*Ei(-1/3) = .3856020120
-(1/4)*exp(1/4)*Ei(-1/4) = .3352213612
-(1/5)*exp(1/5)*Ei(-1/5) = .2986697494
-(1/6)*exp(1/6)*Ei(-1/6) = .2706330136
-(1/7)*exp(1/7)*Ei(-1/7) = .2482813514
-(1/8)*exp(1/8)*Ei(-1/8) = .2299477818
-(1/9)*exp(1/9)*Ei(-1/9) = .2145771028
-(1/10)*exp(1/10)*Ei(-1/10) = .2014642544
-(1/11)*exp(1/11)*Ei(-1/11) = .1901177930
-(1/12)*exp(1/12)*Ei(-1/12) = .1801833179

--
G. A. Edgar                              http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~edgar/


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Gottfried Helms  
View profile  
 More options Nov 7, 11:43 am
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Gottfried Helms <he...@uni-kassel.de>
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 12:43:34 +0100
Local: Sat, Nov 7 2009 11:43 am
Subject: Re: --- a hazardous summation-method for 0!-1!+2!-3!+...-...
Am 07.11.2009 11:52 schrieb G. A. Edgar:

> -exp(1)*Ei(-1) = .5963473622
> -(1/2)*exp(1/2)*Ei(-1/2) = .4614553164
> -(1/3)*exp(1/3)*Ei(-1/3) = .3856020120
> -(1/4)*exp(1/4)*Ei(-1/4) = .3352213612
> -(1/5)*exp(1/5)*Ei(-1/5) = .2986697494
> -(1/6)*exp(1/6)*Ei(-1/6) = .2706330136
> -(1/7)*exp(1/7)*Ei(-1/7) = .2482813514
> -(1/8)*exp(1/8)*Ei(-1/8) = .2299477818
> -(1/9)*exp(1/9)*Ei(-1/9) = .2145771028
> -(1/10)*exp(1/10)*Ei(-1/10) = .2014642544
> -(1/11)*exp(1/11)*Ei(-1/11) = .1901177930
> -(1/12)*exp(1/12)*Ei(-1/12) = .1801833179

Yes, thanks!
With the Pari/GP-intnum-formula applied to the integralformula
I got now nearly the same numbers (last digit differs sometimes
due to rounding(?))

Also I see that the coefficients in my example (the colsums of
the Euler-triangle) are not well suited for Cesaro/Euler-summation,
and I assume that the differences from the 8'th digit on are due
to weak performance of the "sumalt"-procedure in Pari/GP for this
problem.
The results with my implementation of Eulersummation agree with the
sumalt-values, and because I have control over the partial sums
I can also explicitely see the difficulties with the convergence
of that partial sums using that summation: convergence is simply
poorly accelerated. So I conclude this is the source of the problem
in Pari/GP' "sumalt".

Well, meanwhile I have some examples, where such a decomposition
into divergent geometric series and reordering summation works
for the divergent case, and also another example, where it does
not. What's the critical point? I've read G.H.Hardy and K.Knopp
few years ago and may not have realized the relevance of some
related chapters there.

Could someone give some more hint?

Gottfried Helms

----------------

where it worked: (for instance) summing of Bell-numbers/
alternating sum of columns of Stirling-matrices,
see http://go.helms-net.de/math/binomial/04_5_SummingBellStirling.pdf

where it didn't work: q-binomial-matrices (occuring in my
discussion of "exponential polynomial interpolation" for
tetration, not yet rewritten with focus on the q-binomial-
matrices)


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Gottfried Helms  
View profile  
 More options Nov 9, 8:50 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Gottfried Helms <he...@uni-kassel.de>
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:50:03 +0100
Local: Mon, Nov 9 2009 8:50 pm
Subject: Re: --- a hazardous summation-method for 0!-1!+2!-3!+...-...
Am 06.11.2009 23:43 schrieb Gottfried Helms:
> What do you think about the approach to the divergent summation of
> the series in the header

>  su = 0! - 1! + 2! - 3! + 4! - ... + ...

> L Euler found a meaningful interpretation using integrals assigning
> it a value of about 0.596347…
> Also the Borel-summation assigns the same value to this.

> Studying the triangle of Eulerian numbers I came across the
> idea to use this matrix for a summation, decomposing the entries
> of the matrix into geometric series and derivatives.
> Not much sophisticated reasoning about range of convergence
> included, but it finds the correct value.

Interestingly, that triangle can be used for a wider class
of transformations to allow divergent summation.
I'll write it in matrix-notation
Let in an algebraical matrix-formula

   V(x) represent a columnvector of consecutive powers of x
        (a "Vandermondevector")
   F    the vector of factorials [0!,1!,2!,...], dF when used
        as diagonalmatrix,
   E    the Eulermatrix in lower triangular form,
   ~    the symbol for transposition

then first, we have according to the introductional example

       E*V(1) = F

the factorials as results of rowsums.

If we premultiply that with the inverse factorial, then this gives
the unit-vector:

       dF^-1 * F = V(1)

and the unit-vector premultiplied by a vandermonde-row-vector
with the quotient q of a geometric series evaluates to just that
geometric series in closed form; let's use q=1/2 first:

   V(1/2)~ * V(1) =  2

If we use q=-1 then this is a divergent expression

   V(-1)~ * V(1)  = 1/2   // Cesaro/Euler-summation

But if we dissolve the V(1)-vector we get - formally:

   V(-1)~ * ( dF^-1 * F ) = ???
   V(-1)~ * ( dF^-1 * (E * V(1)) ) = ???

and change order of summation

  ( V(-1)~ * dF^-1 * E ) * V(1) = ???
  (    AS(-1) ~ )        * V(1) = ???

Now let's look at the lhs; the inverse factorials
premultiplied to the Eulerian triangle gives strongly
decreasing values in the intermediate result-triangle and
the premultiplication by the V(-1)-vector has nearly the
same rate of convergence as the exponential series - at
least in the first few columns, obviously.

The first few coefficients of AS(-1) are then

  [0.36787944, 0.13533528, 0.0011826310, -0.0047367048,
   0.00015701391, 0.00020692553, -0.000017334505, -0.0000087610541,
   0.0000012416906, 0.00000034713099, -0.000000075195503,
  -0.000000012470560,...]

and postmultiplied with the V(1)-vector we get the partial sums for
up to 13 terms:

  0.36787944
  0.50321472
  0.50439736
  0.49966065
  0.49981766
  0.50002459
  0.50000726
  0.49999849
  0.49999974
  0.50000008
  0.50000001
  0.50000000
  0.50000000
  ...
For positive q we get ahead with q=0.75 and arrive at 4.000000 with 8 decimals
in the 30'th partial sum;

  (V(0,75) *  dF^-1 * E ) * V(1) -> 4.000

and surely for q=1 we get unresolvable divergence. The first
few terms of AS(1) are (using "sumalt" in Pari/GP)

 [2.7182818, 1.9524924, 1.9957914, 2.0000389, 2.0000576,
  2.0000051, 1.9999996, 1.9999999, 2.0000000, 2.0000000,
  2.0000000, 2.0000000]

which very likely continues for the following terms and the
sum of all terms in AS(1) diverges then to infinity.

But for negative q we can do well: for q=-2

  (V(-2) *  dF^-1 * E ) * V(1)

we get the first few terms in AS(-2)

  [0.13533528, 0.15365092, 0.057425669, -0.0042317431, -0.0092431540,
  -0.0010507275, 0.0012603255, 0.00038236770, -0.00013302980, -0.000082748221,
  0.0000069120015, 0.000014186455]

and the first few partial sums are

  0.13533528
  0.28898621
  0.34641187
  0.34218013
  0.33293698
  0.33188625
  0.33314658
  0.33352894
  0.33339591
  0.33331316
  0.33332008
  0.33333426
  0.33333558
  0.33333357
  0.33333302
  0.33333324
  0.33333337
  0.33333335
  0.33333333

-----------------------------------------------------------

Now it would be good to have the exact range of convergence
for the column-sums. The first two columns are easy: for a
left-multiplication with a vandermonde-vector they provide
infinite range of convergence because of the reciprocal factorials.
But even if the range of convergence for a single column
would be infinite, then the (row-) sum of the column-sums need not
be convergent. This seem to happen at least for q>=1

So I guess with that rough sketch, that we have convergence/summability
for the whole range -inf< q <1 and this agrees also with the ability
to sum the alternating factorial series

Nice exercise/example for the divergent summation stuff - isn't it?

Could this be put to more precision?

Gottfried Helms


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
Gottfried Helms  
View profile  
 More options Nov 9, 9:13 pm
Newsgroups: sci.math
From: Gottfried Helms <he...@uni-kassel.de>
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:13:38 +0100
Local: Mon, Nov 9 2009 9:13 pm
Subject: Re: --- a hazardous summation-method for 0!-1!+2!-3!+...-...
Am 09.11.2009 21:50 schrieb Gottfried Helms:

> and surely for q=1 we get unresolvable divergence. The first
> few terms of AS(1) are (using "sumalt" in Pari/GP)

>  [2.7182818, 1.9524924, 1.9957914, 2.0000389, 2.0000576,
>   2.0000051, 1.9999996, 1.9999999, 2.0000000, 2.0000000,
>   2.0000000, 2.0000000]

> which very likely continues for the following terms and the
> sum of all terms in AS(1) diverges then to infinity.

Just being curious: if I remove the constant 2 and sum the
fractional parts I get

 sum k=0..inf  ( AS(1)[k] - 2 ) ->  2/3

If I do alternating summation (with Euler-sum) I get

 sum k=0..inf  ( (-1)^k*AS(1)[k] ) ->  1.761594156  // Euler-summation

which looks like

0.7615941559557648 = (h042) tanh(1)
(by Plouffe's inverter)

  AS(1)*V(-1) = 1 + tanh(1)   // Euler-summation

Strange...

Gottfried Helms


    Reply    Reply to author    Forward  
You must Sign in before you can post messages.
To post a message you must first join this group.
Please update your nickname on the subscription settings page before posting.
You do not have the permission required to post.
End of messages
« Back to Discussions « Newer topic     Older topic »

Create a group - Google Groups - Google Home - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy
©2009 Google