I am in what seems to be a difficult position in regards to finding a PhD program in mathematics. Due to family responsibilities, I will not be able to move for the next few decades, and I live 200 miles from the nearest schools with PhD programs in mathematics.
If I could move, which I cannot, I would be able to get grants, assistantships, etc to cover all of the costs of a PhD program. I can't afford to pay for a degree, but I would do whatever work was required of me that did not involve frequent or lengthy stays away from my home city.
Does anyone have any suggestions for me, given these circumstances?
>I am in what seems to be a difficult position in regards to finding a > PhD program in mathematics. Due to family responsibilities, I will not > be able to move for the next few decades, and I live 200 miles from > the nearest schools with PhD programs in mathematics.
> If I could move, which I cannot, I would be able to get grants, > assistantships, etc to cover all of the costs of a PhD program. I > can't afford to pay for a degree, but I would do whatever work was > required of me that did not involve frequent or lengthy stays away > from my home city.
> Does anyone have any suggestions for me, given these circumstances?
Looks like your SOL, dude. If you cant do the time you cant do the crime (er, math)
Besides you have to get accepted first anyway, and that is a bitch. You have a 4.00 or a 3.90 in Math upper level courses?
Move your entire family, etc to the place that accepts you. If not, do something else.
> >I am in what seems to be a difficult position in regards to finding a > > PhD program in mathematics. Due to family responsibilities, I will not > > be able to move for the next few decades, and I live 200 miles from > > the nearest schools with PhD programs in mathematics.
> > If I could move, which I cannot, I would be able to get grants, > > assistantships, etc to cover all of the costs of a PhD program. I > > can't afford to pay for a degree, but I would do whatever work was > > required of me that did not involve frequent or lengthy stays away > > from my home city.
> > Does anyone have any suggestions for me, given these circumstances?
> Looks like your SOL, dude. > If you cant do the time you cant do the crime (er, math)
> Besides you have to get accepted first anyway, and that is a bitch. > You have a 4.00 or a 3.90 in Math upper level courses?
> Move your entire family, etc to the place that accepts you. > If not, do something else.
It has to do with my extended family, not my nuclear family. I believe that getting accepted to a program would not be a problem for me, so let's not focus on that side of the issue for the purposes of this discussion.
On Nov 19, 3:53 pm, "Bill J." <nola...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am in what seems to be a difficult position in regards to finding a > PhD program in mathematics. Due to family responsibilities, I will not > be able to move for the next few decades, and I live 200 miles from > the nearest schools with PhD programs in mathematics.
> If I could move, which I cannot, I would be able to get grants, > assistantships, etc to cover all of the costs of a PhD program. I > can't afford to pay for a degree, but I would do whatever work was > required of me that did not involve frequent or lengthy stays away > from my home city.
> Does anyone have any suggestions for me, given these circumstances?
I would suggest beginning self-study immediately to get a leg up on the courses you will have to take once you start your PhD program.
> Besides you have to get accepted first anyway, and that > is a bitch. You have a 4.00 or a 3.90 in Math upper level > courses?
My recollection is that it's fairly easy to get into a U.S. Ph.D. program, excluding the top 10 to top 15 programs. I don't think I had much more than a 3.0 (around 3.10 to 3.15), and around 2.7 overall GPA, and I got into all 4 programs I applied to in 1981 (Indiana Univ., Virginia Tech, Washington State, and Univ. of Colorado). In fact, much later, in the early 1990s, a director of graduate studies I knew at a school roughly the same level as these told me that if you're a U.S. citizen, you'd have to have something really against you to not be accepted into his program. I would assume the same is true today, and probably more so.
What *IS* hard in most every program is passing the qualifying exams. When I passed mine I was one of 5 out of 15 that passed. Then you have to write a Dissertation, although from what I've seen, the fall-out is much lower here than with the Qualifying Exams (unlike some other fields, especially in the humanities).
> On Nov 19, 3:53 pm, "Bill J." <nola...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am in what seems to be a difficult position in regards to finding a > > PhD program in mathematics. Due to family responsibilities, I will not > > be able to move for the next few decades, and I live 200 miles from > > the nearest schools with PhD programs in mathematics.
> > If I could move, which I cannot, I would be able to get grants, > > assistantships, etc to cover all of the costs of a PhD program. I > > can't afford to pay for a degree, but I would do whatever work was > > required of me that did not involve frequent or lengthy stays away > > from my home city.
> > Does anyone have any suggestions for me, given these circumstances?
> I would suggest beginning self-study immediately to get a leg up on > the courses you will have to take once you start your PhD program.
Well, my problem is that if I follow the course of action you seem to be implying, I would be really well prepared for starting my PhD.. when I'm 50 or 60 years old.
I am 30 now, and would really like to get a PhD so that I can start working before retirement age.
On Nov 19, 1:53 pm, "Bill J." <nola...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am in what seems to be a difficult position in regards to finding a > PhD program in mathematics. Due to family responsibilities, I will not > be able to move for the next few decades, and I live 200 miles from > the nearest schools with PhD programs in mathematics.
> If I could move, which I cannot, I would be able to get grants, > assistantships, etc to cover all of the costs of a PhD program. I > can't afford to pay for a degree, but I would do whatever work was > required of me that did not involve frequent or lengthy stays away > from my home city.
> Does anyone have any suggestions for me, given these circumstances?
Think outside the box. Consider schools that: (a) have the professors/subjects you want to study, and (b) have/want to have some long-distance learning programs. Write to the professors under whom you might want to study, and explain your situation. Ask if they are willing to support you in your efforts to establish a remote-learning program. If you persist, you may establish a mode of higher learning that others will follow.
Gerhard "Ask Me About System Design" Paseman, 2009.11.19
> On Nov 19, 1:53 pm, "Bill J." <nola...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am in what seems to be a difficult position in regards to finding a > > PhD program in mathematics. Due to family responsibilities, I will not > > be able to move for the next few decades, and I live 200 miles from > > the nearest schools with PhD programs in mathematics.
> > If I could move, which I cannot, I would be able to get grants, > > assistantships, etc to cover all of the costs of a PhD program. I > > can't afford to pay for a degree, but I would do whatever work was > > required of me that did not involve frequent or lengthy stays away > > from my home city.
> > Does anyone have any suggestions for me, given these circumstances?
> Think outside the box. Consider schools that: > (a) have the professors/subjects you want to study, and > (b) have/want to have some long-distance learning > programs. > Write to the professors under whom you might want to > study, and explain your situation. Ask if they are > willing to support you in your efforts to establish a > remote-learning program. If you persist, you may > establish a mode of higher learning that others will > follow.
> Gerhard "Ask Me About System Design" Paseman, 2009.11.19
I have a friend who got his PhD in Meteorology that way. I was hoping someone would tell me that this sort of trail had already been blazed in the Mathematics department at some school.
> On Nov 19, 6:04 pm, ksoileau <kmsoil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 19, 3:53 pm, "Bill J." <nola...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I am in what seems to be a difficult position in regards to finding a > > > PhD program in mathematics. Due to family responsibilities, I will not > > > be able to move for the next few decades, and I live 200 miles from > > > the nearest schools with PhD programs in mathematics.
> > > If I could move, which I cannot, I would be able to get grants, > > > assistantships, etc to cover all of the costs of a PhD program. I > > > can't afford to pay for a degree, but I would do whatever work was > > > required of me that did not involve frequent or lengthy stays away > > > from my home city.
> > > Does anyone have any suggestions for me, given these circumstances?
> > I would suggest beginning self-study immediately to get a leg up on > > the courses you will have to take once you start your PhD program.
> Well, my problem is that if I follow the course of action you seem to > be implying, I would be really well prepared for starting my PhD.. > when I'm 50 or 60 years old.
> I am 30 now, and would really like to get a PhD so that I can start > working before retirement age.
LOL why bother to advise you when you respond with sarcasm...have a nice life, loser.
> On Nov 19, 6:31 pm, "Bill J." <nola...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 19, 6:04 pm, ksoileau <kmsoil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Nov 19, 3:53 pm, "Bill J." <nola...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I am in what seems to be a difficult position in regards to finding a > > > > PhD program in mathematics. Due to family responsibilities, I will not > > > > be able to move for the next few decades, and I live 200 miles from > > > > the nearest schools with PhD programs in mathematics.
> > > > If I could move, which I cannot, I would be able to get grants, > > > > assistantships, etc to cover all of the costs of a PhD program. I > > > > can't afford to pay for a degree, but I would do whatever work was > > > > required of me that did not involve frequent or lengthy stays away > > > > from my home city.
> > > > Does anyone have any suggestions for me, given these circumstances?
> > > I would suggest beginning self-study immediately to get a leg up on > > > the courses you will have to take once you start your PhD program.
> > Well, my problem is that if I follow the course of action you seem to > > be implying, I would be really well prepared for starting my PhD.. > > when I'm 50 or 60 years old.
> > I am 30 now, and would really like to get a PhD so that I can start > > working before retirement age.
> LOL why bother to advise you when you respond with sarcasm...have a > nice life, loser.
Ah, I am sorry that I gave you that impression. It pains me that you now call me a loser, though. The fact that you resorted to such a base insult in response to my response suggests to me that I shouldn't trust your advise in any case.
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:53:49 -0800, Bill J. wrote:
> Does anyone have any suggestions for me, given these circumstances?
Tell them that you are a member of several underrepresented minority groups. To fulfill their quota they may just award you a degree for doing absolutely nothing.
On Nov 19, 11:39 pm, Bill Barber <b...@moregood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:53:49 -0800, Bill J. wrote:
> > Does anyone have any suggestions for me, given these circumstances?
> Tell them that you are a member of several underrepresented minority > groups. To fulfill their quota they may just award you a degree > for doing absolutely nothing.
I guess I deserved that. I'm sorry that I gave the impression I gave. Few people seem to be taking me seriously in this thread, and it must be my fault for being unclear.
I want t work for my degree, I want to earn it. My family obligations will be keeping me 200 miles away from the four nearest schools with graduate programs in mathematics.
I just thought that in this day and age, with the technology available to us, there might exist a math graduate program which I could complete without the requirement of my geographic proximity.
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:01:57 -0800 (PST), "Bill J."
<nola...@gmail.com> wrote: >On Nov 19, 11:39 pm, Bill Barber <b...@moregood.info> wrote: >> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:53:49 -0800, Bill J. wrote:
>> > Does anyone have any suggestions for me, given these circumstances?
>> Tell them that you are a member of several underrepresented minority >> groups. To fulfill their quota they may just award you a degree >> for doing absolutely nothing.
>I guess I deserved that. I'm sorry that I gave the impression I gave. >Few people seem to be taking me seriously in this thread, and it must >be my fault for being unclear.
It seems to me you were perfectly clear. What you want is simply not likely to happen - that's not the way it works.
Elsewhere you say something about wanting to get a degree soon so you can get a job. What's your plan for that job? You can't get to a university to go to school, you're going to persuade some place to hire you as remote professor of mathematics?
The sad truth is that the job market in mathematics is very tight these days - nobody with a job to offer has any problem getting more than enough applicants for the position, they have no need to modify their program to hire you to work online for them.
>I want t work for my degree, I want to earn it. My family obligations >will be keeping me 200 miles away from the four nearest schools with >graduate programs in mathematics.
>I just thought that in this day and age, with the technology available >to us, there might exist a math graduate program which I could >complete without the requirement of my geographic proximity.
David C. Ullrich
"Understanding Godel isn't about following his formal proof. That would make a mockery of everything Godel was up to." (John Jones, "My talk about Godel to the post-grads." in sci.logic.)
> I am in what seems to be a difficult position in regards to finding a > PhD program in mathematics. Due to family responsibilities, I will not > be able to move for the next few decades, and I live 200 miles from > the nearest schools with PhD programs in mathematics.
> If I could move, which I cannot, I would be able to get grants, > assistantships, etc to cover all of the costs of a PhD program. I > can't afford to pay for a degree, but I would do whatever work was > required of me that did not involve frequent or lengthy stays away > from my home city.
> Does anyone have any suggestions for me, given these circumstances?
As far as I heard one time, in Germany (at least) it is possible to earn the PhD when publishing a certain number of articles concerning a topic. But this information may be very inaccurate - it was just told to me by some supervisor and I never attempted to verify. May be this -or some equivalent- is a possibility in your country.
In message <e456942a-d07e-491b-a715-38d8dd0a6...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, Bill J. <nola...@gmail.com> writes
>I want t work for my degree, I want to earn it. My family obligations >will be keeping me 200 miles away from the four nearest schools with >graduate programs in mathematics.
>I just thought that in this day and age, with the technology available >to us, there might exist a math graduate program which I could complete >without the requirement of my geographic proximity.
You don't say where you live, but I imagine it's not the UK as I doubt there's anywhere there 200 miles from every university. However, they have the Open University - http://www.open.ac.uk/ - which does something like what you want. I've no idea whether they accept students living abroad; you might be required to turn up in person occasionally. But there's a good chance someone there will know if there's anything similar in your country. -- David Hartley
On Nov 19, 8:39 pm, Bill Barber <b...@moregood.info> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:53:49 -0800, Bill J. wrote:
> > Does anyone have any suggestions for me, given these circumstances?
> Tell them that you are a member of several underrepresented minority > groups. To fulfill their quota they may just award you a degree > for doing absolutely nothing.
:-)
Scary that our society worldwide has come to such a sad reality.
> My recollection is that it's fairly easy to get into > a U.S. Ph.D. program, excluding the top 10 to top 15 > programs. I don't think I had much more than a 3.0 > (around 3.10 to 3.15), and around 2.7 overall GPA, > and I got into all 4 programs I applied to in 1981 > (Indiana Univ., Virginia Tech, Washington State, and > Univ. of Colorado).
I'm not sure if this makes a difference in the point I was making, but the Ph.D. programs at Virginia Tech and Washington State Univ. that I got accepted into were physics, not mathematics. The other two schools were chosen because of their mathematical physics programs, but one doesn't apply directly to them but rather you enter from the math dept. or from the physics dept. I was definitely stronger in math than physics, which is why the schools I applied to for physics were lower tier. I wound up going to IU, but only stayed 2 years (personal problems, not because I didn't like the school).
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:01:57 -0800, Bill J. wrote:
> I guess I deserved that. I'm sorry that I gave the impression I gave. > Few people seem to be taking me seriously in this thread, and it must be > my fault for being unclear.
> I just thought that in this day and age, with the technology available > to us, there might exist a math graduate program which I could complete > without the requirement of my geographic proximity.
Your situation illustrates the rank state of the educational system today.
The modern university is nothing more than a throwback to medieval times. It is protectionist, exclusive, and operates in a manner that is close to that of the antiquated guild system.
There is nothing sacrosanct about the study of mathematics, except for the fact that its practitioners may claim that it is.
A person, if desired, should be permitted to take a correspondence course (or similar) in mathematics. But that would be considered anathema to the university administrators.
In the past, if a person or group of persons were dissatisfied with the philosophy of their national schools, they would form an alternative school and then proceed from there. This strategy should be practiced today, but it is not. People seem to believe that the status quo is all that there can be.
I say: "Bull!" If the current universities cannot satisfy you, then start another kind of university. That is progess. That is evolution.
> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:01:57 -0800, Bill J. wrote:
> > I guess I deserved that. I'm sorry that I gave the > impression I gave. > > Few people seem to be taking me seriously in this > thread, and it must be > > my fault for being unclear.
> > I just thought that in this day and age, with the > technology available > > to us, there might exist a math graduate program > which I could complete > > without the requirement of my geographic proximity.
> Your situation illustrates the rank state of the > educational > system today.
> The modern university is nothing more than a > throwback to medieval > times. It is protectionist, exclusive, and operates > in a manner that > is close to that of the antiquated guild system.
So you believe anyone without a B.S in math , maybe without a degree should be allowed into a program.?
> There is nothing sacrosanct about the study of > mathematics, except > for the fact that its practitioners may claim that it > is.
I have never heard anyone claim it is.
> A person, if desired, should be permitted to take a > correspondence > course (or similar) in mathematics. But that would > be considered > anathema to the university administrators.
Ever heard of the Open University.?.
> In the past, if a person or group of persons were > dissatisfied > with the philosophy of their national schools, they > would form > an alternative school and then proceed from there. > This strategy > should be practiced today, but it is not. People > seem to believe > that the status quo is all that there can be.
Who has the money, time and skill to do that.?
> I say: "Bull!" If the current universities cannot > satisfy you, > then start another kind of university. That is > progess. That is > evolution.
That is a pain in the ass I would not want to put myself through.
On Nov 20, 11:02 am, amzoti <amz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 19, 8:39 pm, Bill Barber <b...@moregood.info> wrote:
> > On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:53:49 -0800, Bill J. wrote:
> > > Does anyone have any suggestions for me, given these circumstances?
> > Tell them that you are a member of several underrepresented minority > > groups. To fulfill their quota they may just award you a degree > > for doing absolutely nothing.
> :-)
> Scary that our society worldwide has come to such a sad reality.
It isn't a reality. There are extra scholarships, some of them fairly generous, available for students from certain minority groups, but one can't get course credit of any kind, much less an entire degree, merely for being from some particular minority group.
> So you believe anyone without a B.S in math , maybe > without a degree should be allowed into a program.?
The concept of staged learning, i.e. a progression from bachelor to master to doctor to post-doctor to etc., what does it mean?
It is pure tradition. It means nothing. There is no need for it. In fact, it may even be inimical to the overall learning process.
If one wants to learn to speak a foreign language, the best way is to translocate to that foreign region and just live -- just live and learn.
If one wants to learn to play a musical instrument, the best way, the only way, is to pick one up and noodle around until the awkward noodling evolves into a superb mastery and craftsmanship.
The staged agenda of the traditional university inhibits this ideal process by imposing too much regulation and order. (It is a manifestation of the severe anal character of the Western world.) The enthusiastic tyro is not able to freely explore and to develop a true intuitive feel for the subject. The result is only a fabrication of actual learning.
The university wants control. The university wants predictive measures of potential, accomplishment, and value. (Again, we experience the severe anality of the West.)
I say to the university: "Go and f*** yourself!"
A mature human being can easily understand his own abilities and forge his own destiny. The mature human organism does not need to be managed and molded by some external system.
>> There is nothing sacrosanct about the study of mathematics, except >> for the fact that its practitioners may claim that it is.
> I have never heard anyone claim it is.
The fact that one has to "prove" his potential and his sincerity before a panel of appointed experts in the field is claim enough.
> Who has the money, time and skill to do that.?
I speak only hypothetically. I know that it will never happen.
Time, money, and skill are the least problematic of the ingredients necessary for change. What is required foremost is a recognition for change and the courage to begin an implementation.
Regrettably, our current society, in spite of its enormous wealth, has devolved into a nation of placated and emasculated sheep. They will never stir.
On Nov 20, 1:38 pm, rabid_fan <r...@righthere.net> wrote:
> If one wants to learn to speak a foreign language, the > best way is to translocate to that foreign region and > just live -- just live and learn.
Actually, a minimal of instruction preceding the translocation seems to be what produces best results. Simply jumping and going to the foreign region with no knowledge whatsoever greatly steepens the learning curve.
> If one wants to learn to play a musical instrument, > the best way, the only way, is to pick one up and > noodle around until the awkward noodling evolves > into a superb mastery and craftsmanship.
Certainly not "the only way", since guided instruction is one way. And the vast majority (the overwhelming majority) of those who just "pick one up and noodle around" never get past the "awkward noodling", and certainly never reach anything even remotely approaching "superb mastery and craftsmanship." Yes, exceptions exist, but they are that: exceptions.
> The staged agenda of the traditional university > inhibits this ideal process by imposing too much > regulation and order. (It is a manifestation of > the severe anal character of the Western world.)
Interesting idea. How does that perception fit with confucionism and the regulation and order that were inimical to Chinese society, for example? A manifestation of the 'severe anal character of the Western world' too?
> The enthusiastic tyro is not able to freely explore > and to develop a true intuitive feel for the subject.
I think you may be confusing universities with something else. Every university I've been involved in has allowed "enthusiastic tyros" to explore subjects. Most even actively encouraged it.
> I say to the university: "Go and f*** yourself!"
> A mature human being can easily understand his own abilities > and forge his own destiny. The mature human organism does not > need to be managed and molded by some external system.
And nobody requires you to go to university. But if you want the benefits of a university degree (at some level), then you should fulfil the requirements. Because the only reason that university degrees provide those benefits is because they have those requirements. If everyone who wants one could just fill out a form and get a university degree, then university degrees would no longer provide any benefit to anyone.
> >> There is nothing sacrosanct about the study of mathematics, except > >> for the fact that its practitioners may claim that it is.
> > I have never heard anyone claim it is.
> The fact that one has to "prove" his potential and his > sincerity before a panel of appointed experts in the > field is claim enough.
Nobody has to prove anything in order to study mathematics. And no mathematician I know says that you *must* be in a course of study in order to study them. On the other hand, if you want to talk about actually *having* a Ph.D. degree (which again, is not a requirement for studying, doing, or learning mathematics), then it is only natural to expect people to fulfil the usual requirements; it's what makes the degree valuable.
> Regrettably, our current society, in spite of its > enormous wealth, has devolved into a nation of placated > and emasculated sheep. They will never stir.
Especially not to a false or misguided call. "Anality of the West" indeed...
Scholarships??? What the f*** does one need a scholarship for to study mathematics? A pencil and paper are all that is required. (OK. Several pencils and several reams of paper and maybe a computer algebra package. But these things don't require the relatively large sums of cash that accompany a scholarship.)
Let's get realistic. People only attend a university because it endows a certain level of *credibility*. That's what all that tuition money buys. CREDIBILITY. The graduate can more believably claim that he knows some mathematics. This is what university education is all about. One purchases credibility, and ones eventual progress in life depends upon the extent that people are willing to believe.
Unless you have some sort of degree people won't believe you. Why? Because that's how the inhabitants of our culture have been conditioned. Yes, conditioned. I use the word "conditioned" in the sense of the training that is provided to a dumb animal, because most human beings, even ones in positions of importance and influence, are no better intellectually that dumb animals.
Being able to append the letters PhD to ones name automatically induces in most people the willingness to believe. It is irrational behavior but humans are irrational creatures.
If I want to learn mathematics I can learn it by myself and on my own. But if I want people to believe that I know mathematics I will attend a university, fulfill the idiotic requirements, and then shove my diploma into their puzzled faces.
> On Nov 19, 1:53 pm, "Bill J." <nola...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am in what seems to be a difficult position in regards to finding a > > PhD program in mathematics. Due to family responsibilities, I will not > > be able to move for the next few decades, and I live 200 miles from > > the nearest schools with PhD programs in mathematics.
> > If I could move, which I cannot, I would be able to get grants, > > assistantships, etc to cover all of the costs of a PhD program. I > > can't afford to pay for a degree, but I would do whatever work was > > required of me that did not involve frequent or lengthy stays away > > from my home city.
> > Does anyone have any suggestions for me, given these circumstances?
> Think outside the box. Consider schools that: > (a) have the professors/subjects you want to study, and > (b) have/want to have some long-distance learning > programs. > Write to the professors under whom you might want to > study, and explain your situation. Ask if they are > willing to support you in your efforts to establish a > remote-learning program. If you persist, you may > establish a mode of higher learning that others will > follow.
> Gerhard "Ask Me About System Design" Paseman, 2009.11.19
To hammer home what you said, persistence is very important. If a prof seems someone who *really* wants to learn, often they will make exceptions/accommodations they might not do otherwise. It may take years of trying and even then, may be very difficult to carry out, but if you really want it and that's what important to you, then you'll keep at it.
|
